64. LATOC'S GOT SOME FIXING TO DO
In response to my criticisms in #54 (Manufacturers Don't Use Much Oil)...
Matt Savinar (author of "Life After the Oil Crash") wrote:
JD fails to note that I use the term "energy equivalent." This is common throughout the energy industry. You've probably heard people say things like "Barrels of oil equivalent" when referring to our combined consumption of natural gas and coal.
Actually, it's funny that you should say that, Matt. When I was researching #54, I thought I could tag you with saying "cars are made with oil", but when I looked in your site, I only found one quote where you did indeed say boe (barrels of oil equivalent).
But when jkl posted his debunking of you, I noticed that you do in fact say cars are made with oil:
"What About Hybrids and Super Fuel Efficient Cars?"
Hybrids or so called "hyper-cars" aren't the answer either because the construction of an average car consumes approximately 27-54 barrels (1,110-2,200 gallons) of OIL. Thus, a crash program to replace the 700 million internal combustion vehicles currently on the road with super fuel-efficient or alternative fuel-powered vehicles would consume approximately 18-36 billion barrels of OIL, which is the amount of OIL the world currently consumes in six-to-twelve months. Consequently, such a program (while well-intentioned) would actually bring the collapse upon us even sooner. Source
I think you need to correct that error on your site, as well as revise the whole flawed argument which depends on it.
You may wish to say that we are still in big trouble because the US is allegedly facing a natural gas crisis, and therefore we won't have the natural gas needed to make hybrids. But let me remind you of something: American car companies don't make hybrids. Japanese companies do. Also note that Japan already fell off its natural gas cliff in the Jurassic Period because Japan doesn't have any natural gas at all. Nevertheless, I can assure you the country, and Japanese industry, are functioning just fine.
If gas supplies in the U.S. are inadequate for car manufacturing, Toyota will move its operations to one of the many places in the world with adequate gas supplies. That's the beauty of global capitalism.
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In response to this post, Matt Savinar wrote: " I'll add in "barrels of oil equivalent . . ." Whoopdee-fucking-doo. The same argument still applies."
He has still not corrected this error. (10/6/05)
posted by JD @ 9:58 PM
7 comments
7 Comments:
I'll add in "barrels of oil equivalent . . ." Whoopdee-fucking-doo. The same argument still applies.
Matt
The same argument still applies.
I'm confused, Matt. There is no shortage of natural gas, coal or electricity in the world. Why would making cars with those forms of energy cause the "collapse" to happen sooner. It's certainly not going to cause oil to peak any sooner. Are you referring to a different collapse than the one associated with peak oil?
JD, your comments in article 64 about Japan not having natural gas but doing OK ignore how much coal they import from Downunder.
According to the mathematics of Professor Albert Bartlett, we could be facing peak gas and coal mid century.
Considering the Hirsch report stated that it would take 20 years to wean off oil... how long will it take to wean off both gas and coal? We could see "Peak FOSSIL FUELS" by around 2050... especially if we turn to the coal liquefaction recommended in the Hirsch report to mitigate peak coal.
And USA wind & solar are 1/6 of 1% of electricity production. Hmmm, no crisis hey? Peak oil will slow our economies (I'm not a total dieoff doomer — but see a "Greater Depression" as inevitable.)
Once we are already in a massive recession, we will have to have a massive "war time economy" or Manhattan project for renewble energy to get ready for peak gas and coal. It might not be dieoff, I certainly hope so. But it is a monumental stuff up nonetheless.
Hi anon,
Your comments are interesting, and I'm going to drop them into the forum for discussion.
Forum: http://groups.google.com/group/Peak-Oil-Debunked
As far i understand it, it is not about shortage of coal, natural gas or electricity, but dependency on oil. Almost everything that moves uses oil. You want to ship coal, natural gas? what fuel is used to ship those fuels? yes there is railroad, that could work on coal, and maybe ships. You dont need oil to produce electricity in hydroelectric power station , but you need oil to ship anything to there and from there.
You want to make new powerplant? Good luck on getting trucks that run on oil, or natural gas.
(writing about this i recall pictures of my grandmother with a truck that runs on firewood)
Now almost everthing runs on oil. people should start global change of fuel for transporting. That would be great loss to oil industry and i dont thing they would let that happen that simply. And simply for evolving industry based on another fuel, so that industry can support itself with its fuel would take larg amount of oil.
After reading your stupid ideas about EROEI it is pretty obvious you are the last person who should tell anyone to change their blog. You're EROEI stuff is pathetic and it makes Savinar's semantics mistake look tiny in comparison. Sorry, Shiner
Keep an eye on these companies.
http://www.rentechinc.com/
http://www.syntroleum.com/main.aspx
http://www.sasol.com
http://www.sasol.com/sasol_internet/frontend/navigation.jsp?navid=1600033&rootid=2
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